Ep. 495 Shaping the Industry's Future with SDSU’s Construction Management Program

Surety Account Executive Andy Roberts interviews Thais Alves, Chair of the Construction Engineering and Management Program at SDSU, about her journey to academia, the growth of SDSU's construction management program, and the role industry support plays in shaping future leaders in construction.

Show Notes: SDSU Construction Management Program, ⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to Rancho Mesa's Newsletter⁠⁠⁠.

Host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Andy Roberts⁠⁠⁠⁠

Guests: ⁠Thais Alves⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Producer/Editor: ⁠⁠⁠Jadyn Brant⁠⁠⁠

Music: "Home" by JHS Pedals, “Breaking News Intro” by nem0production

© Copyright 2025. Rancho Mesa Insurance Services, Inc. All rights reserved.

Transcript

Andy Roberts: Hello everyone and welcome back to Studio One. I'm Andy Roberts, a Surety Account Executive here at Rancho Mesa and also your host for this week's podcast. Today, I have the joy and honor of being joined in studio by Thais Alves, who is a professor and the Chair of the Construction Engineering and Management Program at San Diego State University. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Thais Alves: Thank you Andy. I appreciate the invitation and the opportunity.

AR: Yeah I was super excited when you said you were on board for coming in here and letting me ask you some questions and, you know, get to be on this side of it. So you know first off I think it'd be good to kind of tell us a little bit about yourself like where you're from, how you got here, just any background information you like to share with us and the listeners because you know I mean we've kind of connected over the last few years but that's usually just out on campus and getting ready to do the presentation and stuff like that.

TA: Right. I feel that I get to talk more about you than you get to talk about me. Yeah, so I'm originally from Brazil and this is a joke that I play with my students. I asked them where this accent is from and I get a few, you know, guesses. I was trained as a civil engineer and when I was in civil engineering during my time in the major, I thought I was going to be a structural designer, a geotechnical designer, and then at some point I got to see construction. And then that changed, like I had discourses towards the end of my major back in Brazil, and I got to intern in a construction site and work with people on the field and then started doing research, and then my career has been academic through and through and I went through my masters back in Brazil then I came to my PhD in Berkeley and all along the research that I developed was always related to people in the industry so I didn't have a lab on campus. I say that my labs are the construction sites, the organizations and this led me to where I am today because over the years as I did my research and advanced whatever theory I was working on, I met a lot of people along the way and this serves me very well today. It helps me to meet people like you, like Anne Wright. It helps my students get jobs, the program gets funded. So I think over the years, I just kept accumulating this human capital in these contacts and the network that I have today and I appreciate that. So that's how I got here and I've been at SDSU since 2009. So this is year 16 for me.

AR: Yeah, but it goes fast.

TA: It does and I mean, it's amazing to see how we have grown in different ways here, which I guess we are going to talk about later. But I feel that every step of my career prepared to the next one. When I was working back in Brazil at some point, I was asked to create a program there, and I went through the process of creating the program. And fast forward to 2017, I was asked to create the construction management program in addition to our construction engineering program. So one thing leads to the other.

AR: Yeah, absolutely. What's the difference like between, kind of, academics in Brazil versus stateside?

TA: So interestingly enough, and again, this is one of those things that your network leads you to places that you never know. When I finished my PhD program at Berkeley, I went back to Brazil and I started working there. And the place where I was working at, it's a city in the northeast of Brazil, it's called Fortaleza. And the industry was extremely supportive of the research of that group. They cannot financially back the schools there, like we have the support here, but they would support our research. So there was always this sense that you were working with people in the industry all along the way. Then when this opportunity came up here, I felt that I was very uniquely positioned because I came to an environment that was very similar to what I had worked with before and at that group back there.

AR: That's really nice.

TA: So I think the fact that there are academics that they have their lives on campus and they don't need to get out of school or to their labs to talk to people right they do research they teach and they stay there. In my line of work this is impossible.

AR: Absolutely. Yeah.

TA: So if I don't talk to people like you, if I don't invite people like you to come to my classes and build this network, I think this doesn't work, doesn't work for me, doesn't work for the students either.

AR: Well, and it's probably really beneficial for the students to be out participating in the network as well and kind of seeing, you know, I find the industry very exciting and, you know, we're always building stuff around San Diego and, you know, it really and it helps their perspective to see stuff in real life.

TA: Yeah, and I think here, the community here in San Diego is absolutely phenomenal. I mean, I think, I see other CSUs, right? I see my colleagues in UCs and the CSUs, and when I tell them the kind of support we enjoy here in San Diego, they get so jealous, right? Because we have AGC supporting our program, it's beyond belief, like all that they do for us and all the support that we enjoy from AGC, the leadership, the staff, the board, also we have the support of NECA who's also a strong backer of our program. We see this here as like a very unique place to be and this reflects in terms of the relationship that the industry also has with our students. So for example, every week or every other week, the students bring folks from the industry to speak. So yesterday there was a company speaking in one of our student chapters. Tomorrow there is another one. And everybody, because we are in a metropolitan area, it's very easy for everybody to drive to SDSU and present. So I feel that we are extremely blessed, not just in terms of support, but where we are. It gives us access to construction projects, to professionals like you and so many other opportunities.

AR: Yeah, well, it's really beneficial, too. I mean, you think about it, like, especially on AGC, like, you know, San Diego is one of their better, bigger, you know, more involved chapters, you know, kind of nationwide. And same thing with NECA, too. Right, so it's really beneficial for her to have those kind of involvement, you know and those types of organizations backing you and helping you out.

TA: Yeah, and the other point is you know, we've been pointed the fact that these are special chapters These are groups of people who have been recognized nationally and I can also I cannot forget CMAA also has been with us in the program since the very beginning and so much so that the chapter we have one of our major chapters is called AGC and CMAA. So it's a chapter that pulls these two organizations together and CMA has also been along with us. Our chapter has received awards in the past. The local CMAA chapter has received awards, SDSU as a partner has received awards. In other words, we work well together and I think there is this symbiotic relationship that people want to be associated with us and we want to be associated with them and we grow together. I think that's very important.

AR: Yeah, well, it's just so nice too on those like, you know, the AGC and NECA, there's so many owners that are really, really involved in those organizations. I mean, I've seen taking a real vested interest in what's going on at San Diego State and it's really exciting and it's really great to see like the community really participate and want to see that grow because, you know, it takes time out everyone you know their day to do that kind of stuff but they see the long-term value in it and you know when we come and speak in your class and you see all the different internships that all the kids have with all the different companies and it's really exciting. And you know you see the excitement from them too when we ask that question of like who are you working for this summer, who did you work for? And you know, they all want to raise their hands and tell us all about it.

TA: Yeah. And I mean, come August, I'm going to be emailing you and Megan and Anne to come back and present to them. And it's, it's very rewarding to see the interest in the local companies like they want to hire from our program. And we also receive very good feedback when we hear from them about the students who are going to work in the local market. And most of them, they stay here in Southern California. Their plan is to stay in San Diego. If they can find a job here, they will stay here. And then the next choice is to stay up to L.A. in Southern California, and some of them stay go up north, back where their families are. But most of our students, they stay here. So that's one more reason for the local industry to support the program because they don't have to go and recruit people from elsewhere and make them get used to the way we live here. And of course it's a very expensive area. So whoever wants to be here, they already know how this area works, how it functions, they know the industry. So that's very important too.

AR: Yeah, Well, so kind of you know, we've seen what the support is kind of done with the program like how like where's the program come? Like how did it start originally and like when you came in on? 2017 you said.

TA: 2009.

AR: 2009. Okay. Oh 2017 was when you did the construction management portion of it.

TA: Yes.

AR: So like how is it transformed from when it started to like where it is now?

TA: Yeah, that's a story that I told a few times, but it's interesting how the industry came together and it all started with Pete Phelan's and the Phelan's family. He came into the university and said, "Hey, you guys have a civil engineering major here, but we should have construction-related majors."

And during that time, the university looked around and said, "You know, if you want that construction major, I guess you're going to have to fund it,” or something along these lines. And they hired somebody who started the program, Professor Ken Walsh, and he was a very important figure to start this whole program, because I think he came here in 2004. So over 20 years ago, he started the program. The Phelan's family named it, so they made a big gift, and our program is named J.R. Phelan's Construction Engineering Management Program, and when you look at that, the program is housed in the College of Engineering, so they had to start with construction engineering first. So in 2008, I believe, was when the first class graduated with a construction engineering degree, so between 2004 Ken Walsh came in here and started everything, and in 2008, the first class graduates. And fast forward to 2017, I'm in my office on a Friday afternoon. And if you are in your office on a Friday afternoon, you're going to pick up calls that maybe you should push to Monday, right? I have had several of those. It's like, “Should I pick up this phone?”

AR: You see that caller ID, you're like, I don't know about that one.

TA: Yeah. So I get a call from my Dean, the Dean of Engineering. And he said, "Look, the industry is asking when we are going to start a construction management program."

And he had talked to other people and he didn't find whoever was the person who was going to push that. And he said, "Do you want to do it?" And I'm like, "Yes, I will do it."

And actually when I was hired, in my interview, I was asked if I had any interest in starting a program and at the time when I arrived that program should have some relationship with the College of Business because there was some real estate component to it but when we got to 2017 and I got that call the dean said this program has to be in the College of Engineering and it's going to be a more engineering you know based kind of curriculum. He said I want the students to take classes in the College of Engineering, and you can put classes elsewhere, but it shouldn't be the bulk of the program. So this was 2017, and the program didn't get into the system for the CSU system until 2020. So it took three years for the program to show up online so that the students could apply. And then 2021, we got the first class admitted as construction management majors. So I was excited. I was, you know, so happy we have this picture of our first time we got that class together. We have the, it was during the COVID years.

AR: I was going to say, that's got to be a little challenging because everything was kind of all shaken up and not running as normal then.

TA: So we were in class in 2021, but everybody was wearing masks. So we have this picture of the first class in 2021, everybody's wearing masks and they're going to graduate this year. So I have to dig that picture and compare who made the four years, made the four years. But interestingly enough, there were several students who were around and they knew this major was coming. They were calling me and emailing me during the pandemic and they were like, "When is this major going to start? I want to start taking courses so that when it's officially the catalog, I'm going to jump in.”

So what happened was we graduated our first class in three years because of that.

AR: Oh yeah, they've done a bunch of the pre-kind of stuff.

TA: So I have this student number one that I remember, he was so insistent and I was like, "We don't have a major yet," he said, "but I'm going to start taking the classes."

And when the major is out, I have the classes ready and he graduated last year, he's working for Hensel Phelps. And it was James, his name is James Snoke. It's a shout out to him. I say this, he's the first construction management student who jumped in even though there was not an official major.

AR: Was he on the engineering side or was he somewhere else within the school like college?

TA: I don't know if he came as a business major and then he decided that whatever he got in as a major, he was going to follow the flow chart of the new major. So he met with me and he said, "What courses do I need to take so that when these start I'm already on track?" So because of him and others who came in those first few years, I had to put classes in place much faster than what I had to do for the class that is graduating now in four years. Because these guys were ahead of the curve.

AR: They're ready to go.

TA: So last year we graduated 14 students and this year we are going to graduate double that number, about double. So it just shows how the program is growing. You probably saw that when you presented that.

AR: Absolutely.

TA: Right, the class was very small when we had to change. Like you came to three different classrooms because the class…

AR: Each one’s bigger and bigger and each time you walk in, like, oh, man, there's a lot more people here to talk to.

TA: Yeah. And I mean, the more the merrier, right?

AR: Absolutely. Well, and it's really nice to when we go to do that, because the first time I did it, you think about, oh, it's college kids. Like, what's their interest level going to really be like? But everyone in there is so invested in this major and what they're doing. And they're so engaged. It makes it a lot of fun to come in there and they're always asking questions and you know seem to really, maybe not, I don't know if it's enjoy the right word but I appreciate that we're there to talk to him about something and what they take away from it So it makes it fun on our end too.

TA: Yes, and you know yesterday I was talking to somebody who has a son who wants to switch into construction management and I wrote to that person This is somebody who is in the industry and the son wants to join the industry, he's in a different major, he's not finding his path and wants to join construction management and I said, you know, through the transfer. So this person's going to have to apply and transfer like any other student who'd be admitted. So I told him that I like to think that our program is also very nurturing. We have such great support from the industry, right? These people want to see them grow, they're going to give them tough love when tough love is needed, but they are very nurturing. And I like to think that our faculty is like that too. So we are there, I'm there every day and I have another colleague who shares the office where we stay and my other colleagues are there, but she and I, we have this special bond that we are like, don't give me excuses, do your homework and like we are there and we are not accepting excuses. And another shout out, her name is Nancy Lakrori. I don't know if you have met her yet, but she's a phenomenal instructor. And she's very tough, very stern, but the students love her because they go through that and they know that they are learning for life, right? So having people like that in our program, it's very important because the students see that we are invested in their education. We are not just going there and talking, turning our backs, and collecting a paycheck. Like, we are there. For me, my work is not done until I see them walking on that stage and graduating. And hopefully, I'm going to be able to help them find a job. So I'm there all along the way.

Some students take more advantage of that than others. I think some of them, they are like, "Oh, I'm going to figure out my own way." But some of them, they take advantage of this mentorship and they get engaged in the clubs and competitions. And so that also makes a big difference for them.

AR: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I can even see when I'm in your class, just how, you know, with how engaged they are and just a lot of them feel so free to come and just talk to you and seek out your advice and help, which is really nice and it shows that you care, which is really important.

TA: In our office, like the faculty, we are five faculty who are focused in construction engineering and management, and we enjoy the support of the entire department that is civil construction and environmental engineering, so the students take courses with different faculty in this department that has 20 different people, but five of us, we are focused on that office, in that office, we are construction related for the most part. So they see that we are there for them. And I have colleagues who are more interested in research and the students can focus that on research and do like cutting edge research here. But the fact is we want to see that they feel that they are supported and we are there.

AR: Yeah.

TA: Right, we are there for them. I think that's very important.

AR: Yeah, no, it absolutely is very important. So, you know, you said, you mentioned it's doubled from last year. Like how do you see, what do you see for the future? Like with enrollment and interest, I mean, it seems to me, interest is only going up.

TA: So that's a great question. So we accept students from two main sources, like either they come because they applied to get into SDSU or they are already at SDSU and they show up in my office and they say, “My dad is in business in some business area of finance or something like this and I did that because my dad told me to do it but I want to do construction management.”

So they show up at my office like that right so the problem is some of these students they entered SDSU entered SDSU through a very tough process. It's hard to get into the college of business. But some of them are trying to find easier paths to get and go there and say, now I want to get into your major. And you're like, not so fast, right? If you don't have the math and physics preparation, which you need more for construction engineering.

AR: Absolutely, especially if you're in like a business or like a finance, if you take a finance class, it's just a sort of that type. It's a big difference.

TA: Yeah. So if they want the engineering one, they have an even tougher path, but they also need that preparation for construction management, which some of them don't seem to know. So they have to spend two years taking courses and getting good grades to show that they can advance in the College of Engineering, right? We are not saying that the rigor is up or down or different or—they have to be good in STEM courses because that's what they are going to keep taking and they are going to follow classes with other students in engineering. And at some point the engineers, they take a turn and they do more design and the construction management students take another turn and they go and do more management. But they have to be prepared to advance and so to your point going back so this is the explanation of how they come in so we were having so many students who were already at SDSU who wanted to join our major they talked to their friends and they hear about the industry and all that and they want to switch majors and in the beginning we were accepting because the major had space in the classrooms. Well we don't have any more. So now I'm trying to keep the program at 200 students. We have 175 for construction engineering and construction management, out of that 120 are construction management, 55 are in construction engineering, but we have 20, 30 students at any given time that they are trying to take those classes in the first two years and they are appearing some of our classes, right? So right now we have 200 people. Our advisory board wants to grow the program and I'm like, we cannot because who's going to staff the classes?

AR: That was going to be my next question.

TA: So we maxed out, like the class that you saw, that's the maximum. So we are counting that these classes that we used to have 15 people and now they have 60, that's it, right? We can't, so this generated a lot of discussions because the students would come as undeclared and they said, “Oh, now I want to do construction management.”

And maybe some people who are going to be listening to this podcast know somebody who wants to be in one of these majors and the right way to do is if they don't get in as a freshman, go to a community college, do the first two years in a community college, reach out to me, we can talk about how this person can start transitioning to SDSU until they apply and they transfer. That is a sure bet.

AR: That's great to know. That's really great to know and great to put out there.

TA: Yeah. This is very important because I receive messages and the students contact me about that and I think community colleges are so cost so cost efficient. They are not going to pay the big tuition of the big schools, and they take care of those core classes in the beginning, and there is an additional advantage. When students are in a community college, they can go to SDSU and take one course per semester, and they pay a fee, I think it's like $50. Don't quote me on that, but it's a small fee. It's not the full tuition for the course, but they can do what is called cross-enrollment. So for example, I teach a course that is called construction and culture, is construction engineering 101. And I have a lot of students who are in community colleges, and they are taking that course through cross-enrollment, but they get to know how we function

AR: That's fantastic. That’s a great program.

TA: It's really good. And I have students, they are so in awe because I start my classes talking about internships and scholarships and clubs and events that are coming. So they are in awe that they have the opportunity to participate in those events even though they are still in the community college stage, right? And the same internships that I post for my students is posted to everybody and they start getting engaged with the industry early. So I love that kind of arrangement that we have the Freshman and we have the students who are going to be transferring already getting used to the system.

AR: Absolutely. I mean, that's just a great way to set this program up and them up for long-term success.

TA: Absolutely. And I cannot tell you how many great examples there are of students who they start on this path and they are so focused. Some of them are more mature. Some of them come from the military. They are veterans. And when you start talking to them, you see the wheels turning. And by the time they transfer, they are like 10 steps ahead of the people who are not involved because they were paying attention and they were taking advantage of this opportunity. So that is, I think it's a great, it's a great program.

AR: Yeah, that's awesome. I mean kind of last question I have for you is like what kind of support can we give you or what else can the industry as a whole do to really support this program?

TA: Well, I think the first one is keep hiring our students keep backing up these pro these projects that are happening here, right? So that they happen as they should but we have an advisory board who is the backers, the supporters, the financial backers of the program, they are part of our advisory board and we are going to have a meeting next month and usually they ask me for a wish list, right? So they tell me what they want to see and we tell them what we need and we kind of negotiate where we can go with what we have. But I think the first one is I hope the industry keeps supporting the program by hiring our students, but also supporting the program financially. I mean, we just had the news that we were going to have three years of 10% cuts in our budget. And then this was in February. Last month, we heard the cuts are not going to be 10%. They're going to be 12% now.

AR: Oh, no.

TA: So any help, any help in any capacity, of course, I appreciate you all coming and guest-speaking because that is golden. They are having that already in school versus having to learn about surety and insurance and all later, right? So when they have this chance to learn in class, I appreciate immensely that the industry is so supportive in coming and guest-speaking. We have teams that are mentored by the local companies here also and it's very important that we have people who volunteer their time to keep training our students. This is this like internships, jobs, mentorship during the program, guest speaking and of course financial backing. Any amount it's well received because we are facing a very tough budget right now.

Like from the state side, we have been hearing about it and now we know how deep the cuts are going to be. And we want to keep the program the quality of instruction, the experience that the students have. And one thing that I think it's beautiful is our students, they fundraise for their activities too. They just don't sit there and wait for the money to show up, right? So I think they see how I work with the industry, they see how much support they receive, and they nurture these relationships as well. And that's something that I work a lot with them, how to work with the local industry, the local supporters, and just help them help us, right? It goes both ways. They want to hire; they want to be hired.

AR: Yeah well, they need to put that investment in. If they want to hire, you know, quality workers that know what they're doing, it makes sense for them to put that time investment in to make sure that the program's doing well and they're getting the instruction that they need.

TA: Yeah. And it's the it's phenomenal as you go around and you visit projects and you meet former students like we meet our former students and I think a testament to how well I think we do in this nurturing and mentoring and creating this community is that they graduate and they want to keep helping, they want to be associated with us. They want to come and get speak and mentor and offer internships and I love it. I mean, what's not to love about that? It's a phenomenal place. I really appreciate the support of the industry. I appreciate your support and Rancho Mesa's support in going and presenting to my students because that's going to make them prepared, that they're going to be better prepared for what's coming.

AR: Yeah. Well thank you for saying that I mean, I really enjoy that day. It's super fun to see that you know, it makes me feel a little old when I'm walking around the college campus now, but outside of that I love that day. So thank you so very much for taking the time and coming to talk to me today this has been really wonderful.

TA: Thank you and thank you and thanks to Anne Wright for introducing us and nurturing this relationship and Megan Sanker who's always with us in that presentation so I want to thank all of you it's very much appreciated and the students see that they appreciate that too so thank you.

AR: Yeah you're welcome.