Author, Andy Roberts, Surety Account Executive, Rancho Mesa Insurance Services, Inc.
Andy Roberts, Rancho Mesa's Surety Account Executive, is joined by Nick Balaity, CPA with Aldrich CPA + Advisors, to discuss the tax law outlook for 2025 and offer insight on contractors’ business decisions in the coming year.
Andy Roberts: Welcome to StudioOne™, I’m Andy Roberts, a surety account executive here at Rancho Mesa and joining me today is Nick Balaity, who is a CPA and partner at Aldrich CPA and Advisors. Thank you very much for joining me in the studio today.
Nick Balaity: Yeah, thanks for having me, man. I've never done a podcast before so this is pretty exciting for me.
AR: Yeah, it's going to be fun. And we have a few really great topics that we're going to get diving into. But before we get started, Nick, why don't you give us a little background about yourself and what you do at Aldrich?
NB: Yeah, thanks. Yeah, so I've been working with contractors on the accounting side for probably 13 years or so at this point. The last eight of which I've been with Aldrich been a partner there for about four years. Getting to work with contractors is pretty awesome just because they're mostly salt to the earth people and blue collar guys and gals and so they're really easy people kind of to work with for the most part.
But Aldrich is a West Coast based firm. Primarily our big offices are in San Diego and Portland, Oregon. And then we organized by industry group. So I'm in our construction group. I head up our California group. And then we have other industries that, you know, manufacturing, real estate things like that. So yeah, I focus just on contractors. I'd say 85% of what I do is just working with contractors.
AR: Yeah, that's fantastic. I know we've worked together on a few and you guys always do just a wonderful job. So, you know, let’s dive into what we're going to talk about first, which I think is a really important topic, especially with, you know, administration changes or some uncertainty. So we're going to dive into some tax law updates and strategies and kind of discuss what might be coming next year. As I'm sure you're probably sitting down with your clients and doing some tax planning, to figure out what 2026 might look like, what changes might come.
NB: Yeah, it's a funny year to do it because, you know, we go into these meetings at year-end tax planning and we're kind of telling them, “Hey, this is the strategy for this year, but it might be different next year.” So, the 2018 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that went into place when Trump was last in office, those provisions are set to expire at the end of 2025. And so the question is like, what will change if those expire?
So the kind of the big things that'll change that people should be aware of is the overall the rates are going up. So, like your top federal rate is going to go from 37% to 39.6%. Not a huge jump, but definitely noticeable, especially if you're at the higher levels. And so the qualified business income deduction also expires. So if you have any pass through entities, so like S Corps, partnerships, LLCs, you were getting and still are getting a 20% deduction on your federal taxable income. So if you had an income of a million bucks, you'd be getting a $200,000 deduction to bring it down to $800,000. That got us to what are effective top rate of 29.6%. You know, 37% minus the 20%. So 29.6% kind of was the top tax rate, which was great. That's kind of some of the lowest rates we've ever seen in recent memory. That's all set to expire at the end of 2025 and going into 2026.
So really, the question has been, what is the Trump administration going to do when it comes in, especially now that the Republicans control both sides of the House and the Senate? And so I think what we've seen so far from the administration is they are looking to extend most of those provisions and make them permanent, is kind of what they want to do. Really, it becomes a question of budget reconciliation, what they can do, but we're anticipating that those will get extended.
I think there's a section of our clients that are like, “Are taxes going down?” Maybe, I don't know if there's an appetite to actually cut it again. It feels like there's more of an appetite within Congress to just extend what we currently have. So, but the other provision is bonus depreciation, that's been coming down. It's been going down 20% percent every year and that's going to go to zero. They want to bring that back at 100% as well and make that permanent too. So yeah, so I mean, if all that happens, you know, we'll be kind of looking at kind of the same as we have, but if not, which we'll get an idea of, you should be reaching out to your CPA and starting to look at what strategies you can do as you go into 2026.
AR: I mean, that's what makes it really important to have a resource like yourself if you're a contractor and an owner to talk about this kind of stuff when you're sitting down so you can plan for your business. What do you think the timeline looks like for when we might have a finalized answer on some of this stuff and what they're going to do? Just best guess.
NB: Yeah, if they're going to do something, they'll have to do it within the first few months, I would think, for it to be effective. I mean, there have been retroactive tax law changes. Everything I've read is they're going to make it all effective, 01/01/25. So if they're going to do that, you would think they would do it in 2025. But man, Congress is typically a jumbled up mess. So it's very hard to know exactly when it's going to happen.
AR: If they do a retroactive to 01/01/2025, do you have to go back and amend returns?
NB: As long as those changes are in place before we file the 2025 return, which would be like, you know, February through April of 2026, yeah.
AR: Yeah, it's good information right there. That's a lot of work on your guys as well.
NB: Yeah, for sure. You know, a lot of just keeping our ear to the ground.
AR: Yeah. So, with those, now that we've kind of talked about that, so let's kind of look at what some strategies contractors can do, you know, when they're doing their taxes for what they, you know, to decrease their income and stuff. So let's look at some pros and cons of maybe like cash basis versus percentage of completion on your end.
NB: No, that's always like one of the first things we do when we meet with a client or a potential client, a prospect is figure out what their method of accounting is for tax and just try and evaluate if that's really the best fit for them. A lot of times it can be, "Hey, we're already on this method," and so to switch might not make sense. It might cost us a bit in the short run, but generally what we see a lot of is, you know, smaller contractors that are first starting out and growing will be on cash basis.
Cash basis can be really advantageous as you're growing your business because as we know, construction is a very capital intensive business and so the more cash you can retain, the better. So typically as you're growing, your AR balance is also growing. You have more and more accounts receivable outstanding and cash allows you to defer that income on that AR until it's actually received. And so as you're growing, it keeps more cash in the business. As you flatten out, you know, if you reach that kind of cruising altitude, it'll, you know, you'll be deferring, you know, that AR, but then it'll be coming back into the next year and you're typically deferring a similar amount. So it kind of gets, it should in theory level out to kind of closer to where book would be, but you're still managing that all the time. So a lot of times we'll see clients switch over to percentage of completion method or they'll be forced to do that when they go over $30 million roughly-- it's an inflation adjusted number of gross receipts on a three-year average. The advantages of that is it's just way your plan around, you know, you're not, you're not sitting there on December 30th, and, and saying, “How much cash do I have in my account? What's my AR? What's my AP?” You're really able to manage that kind of just through your whip, you know, so you're able to kind of look at and see, okay, whatever my book income is, typically my taxable income is going to be pretty similar.
AR: Yeah, well, it's, I mean, it's a good thing to talk about too, because we were always on our end looking at percentage of completion for what we want to see from your guys on that part, but that's different from on the tax side.
NB: Yeah, and that's one of the advantages though, of being on cash is you can still be showing really nice profits, but you're not picking up that income yet until you actually do. So there can be a pretty big divide between taxable income and book income when you're on cash basis.
AR: So one last thing to touch on this one would maybe be, for contractors looking to buy equipment, should they buy it? Should they not? What are the advantages, disadvantages?
NB: Yeah, I feel like it's the question we get very frequently at the end of the year, because I think, you know, there's been enough TikToks and Instagrams out there talking about, “Oh, I just bought this Escalade and now I get to write it off.” And while that is true…
AR: You got that big cash balance in your bank account, what do you want to do to bring that down a little bit?
NB: Right. And so, buying equipment is the question we get a lot. And kind of my two cents on this is, it never makes sense to spend a dollar to save 30 cents, you know, like if you need the piece of equipment, you should buy it.
AR: Absolutely.
NB: If you're looking at buying it in Q1 or Q2 of the next year, maybe we say, “Hey, maybe it makes sense to accelerate that purchase and go ahead and do it now to go ahead and capture that deduction.”
But really, there's impacts to it, right? So if you're paying cash, then you're reducing your working capital because you're exchanging a current asset for a long-term asset. If you're financing it, that'll have a little bit less of an impact on working capital because you'll have just a current portion of that debt that'll be on the books. And so it's really something to just kind of evaluate, you know, bring in your surety broker, bring in your banker, especially if it's a big piece of equipment and kind of let them know what you're thinking about doing, work with your CPA, what the impact would look like and just make sure that it's going to affect anything on your credit side or your bonding side.
AR: Yeah, well, I mean, especially on our end where, you know, we love to see cash in the bank. You know, when we do a submission, we send in, like, we'll often send in like a vehicle list. But that's not going to give you a ton of surety credit. That's nice to show the underwriter, like, “Hey, this is where they have invested in their business,” but we also, you know, if it's going to tank that cash balance, that's going to have a direct effect on the credit you're going to get and lead to a lot more questions from underwriting as to what happened to that money because they would always rather see it sit in the account in case something happens.
NB: Yeah, it's our CFO said this to me recently that I really like this saying; if you come to me early with a decision like this, you have a partner, you come to me after you have a judge.
AR: Oh man, that’s great.
NB: Yeah, I think that's really kind of the same thing here with you let your partners know what kind of types of moves you want to make and they can help guide you along the way and really help you with that. You come to them after, what's done is done, and now we're just kind of stuck with the result and we got to kind of manage around it that way.
AR: Yeah, and we have to deal with whatever terms are going to come from that as opposed to putting a plan in place or at least putting the options out there and be like, “Well, if you do this, this is what happens or here's what happens on this side,” and let them make the decision from there, and, you know, whatever repercussions might come from it.
All right, next thing, which I mean, I know I've been seeing a lot more and I'm sure you have as well are business transitions. I know there's a few different methods. Let's start with, you know, we were talking about what an internal buyout looks like. I mean, that's pretty self-explanatory that it's coming from like the inside, but do you see that pretty frequently or…?
NB: Yeah. It's a timely topic. It's kind of been a big thing I feel like for the last five or 10 years as this large baby boomer generation is getting closer to retirement, you know, they're looking at, “How do I get the final value out of this business?” Or for some, it's not even about getting that final value, it's about, “How do I leave a legacy behind and a company that'll keep going on and have people there to run it?”
AR: I feel like a lot of people are very proud of the name that they've built and they want to see it keep going.
NB: Totally. And they should, especially some of the ones we've seen that are local that have grown to be $100 million contractors. You should be proud of that. So yeah, internal buyouts are probably the most common we're seeing right now where maybe you have a kid—a son or a daughter—that's coming into the business that has been working with you and wants to buy you out or maybe you just have some key employees that you would like to hand over the keys to the kingdom on. Really the biggest thing there is like the financing for those tend to be based on the company's profits. And so there may be some debt that comes into place related to that. And so how's that going to affect the company kind of bringing it back kind of the surety piece of it is like, you know, if we put on this big debt, what's going to happen? Also, if we, you know, if our main shareholder who probably at this point in their career has nice personal net worth is in, you know, is on the indemnity, is there someone else who's going to take that over? Are they going to stay on? How's that going to impact the bonding capability or even the bank, right? Yeah, you know, your lines of credit probably have some personal guarantees in there as well.
AR: Well, I mean, that's like a big question we usually ask too, because typically the, you know, the son or the younger generation that might be buying the company are definitely not going to have as developed a personal financial statement as the current owner who's been doing this for 30 plus years. So like if they're willing to stay on and indemnify, that really helps our case a lot if they're going to be bringing on some debt, because just to know that there's someone else there backing the company, as these people come in.
NB: And I mean, I would say, man, I feel like I deal with in five or six of these almost every year, where we're just trying to figure out how to make this work. So there's a thing you can get really creative. And so it's not something people should be afraid of. But they should reach out to their CPA, they’ve seen a lot of these go on and there's a lot of different ways we can skin this cat and come up with a solution that's going to work for everyone.
AR: No, it's always I mean, it's super important to trust your advisors or your partners and make sure you're utilizing all the resources that you have around you when you're making a big important decision like this.
NB: Yeah. And I think getting everyone as involved as possible and then also just looking at what are you trying to get out of it, right? So if we're trying to maximize cash, internal buyout might not be the best, maybe an external buyout would be better and we can kind of transition talking about that.
AR: Yeah, let’s do it.
NB: External buyouts, there's a bunch of different ways that can kind of look. You can sell to a competitor, or maybe someone more upstream that's trying to vertically integrate, those tend to be some of the faster moving deals that get done because they know your industry really well. They kind of already have an idea of the types of projects you do.
You can also go private equity; which private equity has been coming into construction space more and more. It used to be they were really only interested in companies that had more of like a repeat service component or repair. You know, so, it would be like HVAC, or maybe like plumbing or in some cases electrical, but some of those don't even have service component to them. And so recently they've gotten more aggressive and there's definitely been more of a push into some more niche or specialty areas. And so they're not quite going after general contractors yet, but I can see a world where eventually they do.
AR: I mean; we're definitely seeing it more too.
NB: Yeah.
AR: Like, I mean, it's happening more and more frequently.
NB: Yeah. And so the biggest thing to know about with private equity is it's going to come with some-- it's probably going to be one of your highest offers you will get; you'll maximize value that way. But there probably will be a three or five-year period where the owner or key management are going to have kind of golden handcuffs, where they need to stay on. So it's not going to be a quick exit where you might be able to get that more with an internal buyout or potentially having a competitor come in and buy you out. Typically, private equity is going to want key management to stay on board for a little bit. So it's something to consider.
So one of the things, you know, we talk about a lot with clients is trying to plan in advance for this. When you're starting to say, "Hey, I think I'm five years out from wanting to retire and be out," that's the time to start kind of planning, "Okay, how do we want to do this? Should we get a valuation of the company to kind of see what's it worth and figure out, you know, what's our retirement plan? Is that going to be enough? Do I need to stay working a little bit longer to make sure I have enough for my nest egg?” And so it's just kind of a, there's a whole bunch of different conversations need to happen. And then also, if we're going to look to external, how do we position the company to sale, right? So how do we make it look as attractive as possible to an outside buyer?
I think kind of the last option that's become a lot more popular recently is ESOPs. So if you don't know what an ESOP is and it's an Employee Stock Option Plan. And basically it’s where a trust gets set up, and not to get too into the weeds, but a trust is owned by what’s essentially a 401k plan, and they own the stock of the business. And so it’s a way that you can get the ownership of your business to your employees, which is really actually a pretty cool legacy you can leave if you’re basically selling the company back to all your employees, not just key employees. But they are expensive, they cost quite a bit to run every year. There's evaluation that has to happen. There's an audit that has to happen. There's actuaries that get involved and things like that. But it can be a great way to cement that legacy and let it live on and really reward your employees who've been loyal to you over the years with ownership in the business. All this stuff just takes a lot of planning. Like my key thing that I say to every contractor is whenever you think you want to start looking at this, you know, we just need to make sure we have a runway to kind of build out that plan.
AR: Yeah. How often do your clients come to you with the five-year runway versus like the one-year?
NB: Pretty rarely, I would say. You know, I have a couple, clients that just really look ahead. I think it's one of those business, construction's hard when you're, especially when you're the sole owner or primary owner, you know, all that stress, you feel it. And so it can be really rewarding, but it can be really challenging just on yourself. So a lot of times we get contractors that come to us and are just like, "I'm done. I need to get out." And we can absolutely help through that situation. But in an ideal world, we would say, "Hey, let's start looking three to five years out so we can get you positioned and ready and we have your plan set up and all that."
AR: Do most of the time when they come to you with this plan, do they have an idea already; do they want to do external versus internal? Because I know external, there's more options. Do they kind of have an idea of what they want to do?
NB: Most of the time they do. They'll come to us and they'll say, “Hey, I do have a key employee or a son or daughter that wants to take over the business. And that's the way I really want to go because I feel strongly about that.” Sometimes they do come where they're like, “Hey, I think I
want to do an internal buy-out but I'm not sure that they're going to be able to afford it.” I just had that conversation with a client the other day and we went through process, we got a valuation done for them and they saw what it's worth. And the question was, "Hey, do I want to take a haircut and make it so that it can be bought internally or do I want to go external?" And in this case, they wanted to go external because they didn't want to leave that much money on the table, which is totally fair. You know, you built up that company, that's your value and you choose what to do with it. So, yeah, I would say most of the time they have an idea of what they want to do. My job I feel like as an advisor to them is to make sure they're aware of all the options that are out there to them and what those, how much money could be on the table.
AR: Now, kind of circling back on like private equity because, I mean, we're seeing a bunch of that, just like you are. And I mean, it can have a pretty big effect on your financials and your balance sheet that really can actually hurt your bonding capacity, and I think a lot of people aren't totally aware of that going into it because they see this big number coming from PE, and they think it's fantastic if they just have to hang around for three to five years, but they don't understand what bringing on some of this debt or goodwill and these kinds of things to do to your balance sheet and your financials and what they can do to your surety program.
NB: Yeah, it's one of those things that you really want to model out, right? So before that deal closes, before you sign that purchase agreement, you want to make sure that you've looked at, okay, this is the number, this is the debt, this is how the working capital is going to look post transaction. And then also like, you know, is the private equity firm going to be willing to take on the indemnity that maybe the primary shareholder was taking on?
AR: Usually that's a no.
NB: Yeah, exactly. It's almost always a no. So it's like, okay, are they going to infuse more capital in to make sure that the bonding is going to stay there? And so I think that's why you've seen a little bit less interest in public works contractors for PE because there is kind of that hook that they got to sign on for. And so you're seeing it a little bit more and more than ones that do private construction projects.
AR: No, definitely. I feel like too, there's been some PE firms that I've just been reading about and stuff that they don't totally understand what they're getting into when they buy that company, when it comes to the bonding aspect, because maybe it's not major, but it's sizable and then you
present them with, “Oh well, we either need you to put a bunch of money in or someone on over there needs to sign,” and they don't want to do it.
And you're like, “Well, then you're going to lose that aspect of the business.”
NB: Totally, and it comes back to every time, like the best advice I can ever give a contractor is before you do any significant transaction or anything you need to be bringing in all of your outside advisors: the bank, the surety broker, the CPA, your attorney, making sure that everyone's on board and knows what's going on and we can work through all these things kind of before the transaction happens. Because it can kill a transaction too.
AR: Yeah, it kind of goes back to what you were saying about how you need to utilize all your resources, whether it's banking, CPAs, your surety agent, your insurance agent too, what that kind of does with your policies to make sure there's, you know, you're not significantly impacting your business. You know, because I think you guys will handle like some benchmarking and some of that type of stuff.
NB: Yeah, yeah, so we'll do benchmarking with clients. We get really good data just from our own client groups. I mean, we serve, gosh, I want to say like 400 contractors across our firm, you know, between all of our geographies. So we have a lot of internal data and then there's also external data points out there like CFMA, Construction Financial Management Association does an annual survey that's broken out by company size, geography, trade. It's really an incredible survey they put out. You can benchmark yourself against that. But then also it's just like the kind of intangible knowledge of working with a lot of contractors. What have I seen be successful? Same with your surety broker. What have they seen to other contractors that you could leverage off of, that experience that you guys have with other folks? So yeah, there's a lot of great opportunities for your CPA or bonding agent to come in and provide knowledge from kind of the outside, just from what we're seeing in other places.
AR: Yeah, that's great. And I mean, I think the kind of last thing to kind of, you know, from my perspective to kind of input on here for, you know, any contractors listening is, you know, having a great CPA relationship is something that's invaluable to your business. So, you know, I know you and I have gotten to work a lot together over the last few years since I've kind of come into the industry. And It's always nice when we see a review from you guys that says Aldrich on the front. So yeah, no, I appreciate that.
NB: And likewise, Andy. And Rancho Mesa has been a great partner with us too. And so to me, it's the more you can get your advisors talking together as a group and not isolated, the better, because we can come up with solutions as a group that kind of come to think about all the different angles, right? So like, I know a lot about the tax side. I know a lot about the financial side. I know a little bit about, you know, the bonding program, but that's where your expertise comes in and you can kind of give your expertise and your specialization there that you have and kind of advice on impacts, you know.
AR: Well, and it's super nice because anytime someone's like, "Oh, well, let's talk about what's this going to do tax-wise," I'm like, "Oh, I'm not the guy for that, but I know someone that can help you there.”
NB: Yeah, right, exactly, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, that's the biggest thing is, just keep everybody in the loop.
AR: Yeah well I think that was a lot of really great information on this this episode so Nick, thanks very much for joining me.
NB: Yeah happy to happy to join you and thanks for including me.